New Moon in Leo: Collective disaster transits

As astrologers we each have our style, preferences, and orientation for our practice. Every month, we choose a question about our professional astrology practice, and collect your responses here.
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Geoff Gronlund
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New Moon in Leo: Collective disaster transits

Postby Geoff Gronlund » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:22 pm

Critics of Astrology have asked the question:

Why during a disaster, when many people die under the same circumstances, do the astrological transits of the event affect each of the victim's individual charts the exact same way? In other words, they each have a different chart, yet experience the same outcome.

What is your take on this question?

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Geoff Gronlund
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Re: New Moon in Leo: Collective disaster transits

Postby Geoff Gronlund » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:19 pm


Lauren Pitasch

I imagine there can be a collective transit that affects all of them. Perhaps they were all affected by a certain eclipse energy. Or an outer planet transit. Or outer planet Natal aspect. 

Shawn Limbach

The question reminds me of the quantum theory of the particle and the wave. Are we looking from a collective experience or an individual experience to find meaning in the event? The chart of the event can be revealing. The location of the event can be revealing. Individual charts reveal how a catastrophic collective event could be useful in the soul’s journey. What looks like the same event is not the same event depending on the perspective. So, the question of the catastrophic event being experienced in the exact same way only makes sense if it’s considered to be a collective/wave event rather than many individuals. If it is a collective event, use an event chart. If it is an individual, consider deeper meaning looking past the physical ‘event.’

Stephanie Smith

I would say that the astro transits of the event do not affect the victim's charts the exact same way. Just because all the people die doesn't mean they had the same experience of death. For example (and on a smaller scale), if ten of us go to the same art museum at the same time to see the same Georgia O'Keefe exhibit, we clearly share that experience on one level, but whether we like the art or not—how it speaks to each of us, what we take away from it—will be vastly different.

Anne Ortelee

Having lived through 9-11 in New York City, the posters for the missing folks contained their birth dates. Wandering along the walls looking at the posters, there were a preponderance of Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini and Sagittarius birthdays. Sagittarius was obvious—firefighters are folks who run into burning buildings, as the rest of us run out of them, and put out the fires—343 firefighters died in the tower collapse of the 411 emergency workers who died. Sagittarius rules firefighters, including the chaplain of the force, Father Judge. I think of emergency workers as Sag too—they appear after a Scorpio event. Marsh and McLennan, an insurance broker, was housed in the towers—also a Sagittarius ruled industry—they, too, arrive after a Scorpio loss.

Cancer deaths were focused on the World Trade Center Windows on the World restaurant at the top of the first tower hit—Cancer rules restaurants, so folks having a power breakfast, and those serving them that morning, perished. Cantor Fitzgerald, arguably the largest loss of life in a single company, traded US Treasury bonds—The United States is a Cancer country. There were a number of US government agencies in the Trade Center, including EEOC and Social Security. There were also several state, city, and federal agencies in the building, designed to take care of the citizens of this Cancer country. 

New York City is a Capricorn city, consolidated on January 1, 1898 at midnight. Saturn, Capricorn's ruler, was in Gemini, the sign of the city, buildings, and, literally, the TWIN towers (you can't make this astrology stuff up!). The attacks took place in the financial district at what could arguably be called the "knees" of New York if you look at Manhattan like a body. Plus, there were many transportation subway and train lines that met under the towers, literally walking the folks into the disaster. It was a Gemini—transportation hub—for the surrounding area of office buildings.

Finally, the name World Trade—Sagittarius Gemini right there in the title—we see the name calling in the energy of the heavens. The next day around the world, the newspaper headlines published images of the Twin Towers (Saturn in Gemini) attacked by deadly Flying Fire (Pluto in Sagittarius) and burning.

As we know, people work for companies or governments if their charts hold that natal potential, so back to the beginning where many of the charts were Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, and Sagittarius. Similar to walking through a graveyard with start and end dates, a disaster provides us a portal into the impact of a cosmic event on the charts of the folks affected. 

Lucia Lu

First, it is a difficult question, for I have never done enough research about this topic. Having a Virgo rising I do not feel that I am confident to argue with enough evidence. But I do remember a book I read in which the astrologer said there was not enough evidence to support that the time of death helps the chart rectification, and that means time of death is difficult to predict (different from what ancient astrologers do). And from my own experience, transits sometimes tell the event and sometimes they do not. For example, if you schedule a meeting a year ahead of time and when it happens this time is not shown in the transits. We also call these "events" in our daily life but we have to understand they are not the "events" we pay attention to in an astrological sense.

Second, this is a very crucial question in astrological philosophy. Astrology itself is not everything. Astrology does not tell the details of life as people think, it tells the energy pattern, and this energy pattern reveals itself in many different ways. I also want to say that there are many things which are not included in the existing system that we use. We do understand that astrology is like magic but astrologers are not gods and we do not know everything. For example, in the West people have Christmas and in the East people have Spring Festival. We Chinese can easily predict that in February a young person may have to face the pressure of getting married from their family because that is when family gets together!

Third, talking about techniques, transits are only one of the many ways that we look at the experience. We have progressions and solar arcs and other things. If two people die at the same time they may still have different experiences just because they are different people. Death itself could be a different experience from an astrological point of view. 

Sue Minahan

Experience is uniquely individual, ultimately.  

Evolutionary Astrology perceives every life spirit incarnating repeatedly, beyond our measurement of knowing. Our multitude of lives culminate into a specifically personal moment that relates immediately to the moment of our birth and the location on this earth body of Gaia.

Evolutionary Astrology recognizes we integrate these inherent lives through our South Node with the polarity of the North Node to become ideally a whole person unified in mind, spirit, emotion, and body. That's the ideal.

Reality continues to ask us to heal the broken fragmented parts of ourselves with either our emotion, body, spirit, and/or mind. As the Universe was born and fragmented from the whole into the myriad of diverse parts we all label as resources and elements of nature, we too are left fragmented. Our horoscope represents our task to heal—that is individually us—our personal need for soul growth.

So, long story short, a disaster affects each and every person slightly differently. Death may be welcomed, death may be feared. Death may be a mask. Death may be a transition. Death may be a ghost walk wondering what happened. And for the living, the shock resonates as vibration differently between the planets of our birth and the transits and progressions of our life. These are symbolic representations for the entire person we each uniquely are because of the nature of the split between these primary parts—the body, the spirit, the emotion, and the mind.  

The purpose is to heal. To unify. It's a long process. And a life is the way through. I'd say our steps are each different how we truly interpret, perceive, embrace, engage, resist, reveal, and hopefully in time, heal.

Alexandra Karacostas

Looking at the outer planets can offer some clues. There is historical research on this subject and there is always more to be learned. One brief example is the Great Depression in the USA between 1929-1941. Pluto was in Cancer and Uranus was in Aries in a closing square aspect (like recently). Cancer represents home, security, safety, nurturing, family, the familiar, etc. All that and more was severely disrupted during this period in history and just about everyone's life in the USA was touched by that event. Toward the end of that aspect, Uranus and Saturn conjoined in Taurus reflecting a shift in the economy/money which slowly turned around.  

Innessa Wuzyk

I don't think that the moment of a person's death is predictable by astrology in the first place.
Here is a reason:

In polytheistic religions, such as Norse or Greek mythology, there are many gods (planets). The gods (planets) are the movers and shakers. Yet in a hierarchy all by itself, and above all of these, lies Fate. Fate rules supreme. Fate is similar to chaos. The gods or planets (order) don't determine the moment that the ribbon is cut for an individual, that is up to Fate. We surrender to that.

Astrologers work with planets (the gods in mythological systems). Planets are predictable and orderly, not fateful and chaotic. We astrologers can apply our arts of the orderly and predict a moment of death for an individual. Chaos (or Fate) is always present and may confound our expectations. I am not saying that astrologers are always right or wrong in their predictions, but
not for nothing is God (Fate) described as inscrutable. Fate does rule supreme.

Khatuna Noel

This Question of the Month about disasters affected me very much. Indeed, how many people are dying whose natal charts are completely different! At first glance, you might be surprised that they all perished under the same circumstances, but the reason is precisely that they all have different charts. Because in fact all victims of crashes have different indicators of fatal injuries and all of them really die in different ways—one may have a stroke, another will get a fracture of the spine, something heavy may fall on someone’s head, a piece of metal or glass could have hurt someone…. So, it will not be right to say that in catastrophes all people die for the same reasons. They all have their own causes of death and they are as different as their natal charts.

Arlan Wise

I think it is the astrology of the disaster that is relevant here. When 9/11 happened, it showed in the chart of the USA with Saturn and Pluto sitting on the ASC/DSC axis. There may have been important transits in the individual charts of the victims and in the charts of those people who were late to work that day or had to stay home for various reasons, but we will never know. All we can do is speculate.

Donna Young

Because it's not all about us. There are many things that go on in the world that are part of the collective experience. We can't take every environmental or economic disaster personally. 

Kim de Noüe

This is a really tough question for me as I am not much of a disaster-tracking astrologer. However, I have looked at the charts of some disaster victims and have found that there is usually a chart similarity in some form. Typically, a transiting outer planet will be in hard aspect to an angle or a prominent natal planet, such as a chart ruler, or there is a stellium or group of planets conjunct or square in the natal chart. The specific configurations may be different, but they tend to have similar themes related to aspects of Pluto, Uranus, Saturn, and Jupiter.

Carol Dimitrov

I believe that although the charts are different, we could find the link in many of the charts. For those who were affected in which we do not see a link? I believe we have just not discovered, uncovered, or understand where the connection lies. I think with continued research we will discover a common thread that may not be available at the time due to limited knowledge, and as our knowledge grows, so does our understanding of the outcome.

Maurice Fernandez

In my experience, we will see the chart of many of the victims direct impactful transits that will depict some dramatic or violent occurrence. This is part of the law of synchronicity to have all these people gathered in the same place to experience the collective event.

For some it will be a Mars transit, for others a Pluto transit… Many different astrology configurations can reflect similar events. Besides, each person experiences the event in a different context and the signatures vary accordingly. They may all experience the same event, but they each come from a different reality and perception of the event. Hence transit triggers can vary.

For example, using the sinking of the Titanic (April 14, 1912), Mars and Pluto (rupture, life and death) were conjunct at 27-29 Gemini (transport), with ruler Mercury stationary retrograde in Aries. And then Neptune (sinking) at 20 Cancer squared the Nodes exactly. Was each passenger affected by these signatures? I went to the website that lists all the passengers on board and picked one randomly, the first who had a Birth date listed. This was Mrs. Johanna Persdotter Ahlin, born June 21, 1971 – This means her natal Sun/Mercury were at 29 Gemini, square Pluto at 27 Virgo… mmm…we may say a direct hit!

Beyond the personal triggers, there are collective signatures that do supersede personal chart signatures. Using the Titanic transit, the challenging signatures involving slow moving planets generated a collective tremor that affected even those who were not on board. It had a collective echo.

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